Oral History Interview with Caroline Gutman

Fanny Schwartz was born on December 16, 1911 in Stavna, Czechoslovakia. She was brought up by a very observant father who was a shochet (ritual slaughterer) who tutored his children in their Jewish subjects. He was also a leader in the local kehillah. There were nine children in the family; only Fanny, two of her sisters and two brothers survived. Her brothers came to the United States in 1939.

Fanny was living in Berecin1 with her husband and young son before the war started. They lost their store in 1938 when the Hungarians occupied Czechoslovakia. Fanny describes the Hungarians as very antisemitic. Fanny’s husband was taken to a work camp but was able to return and the family was able to remain in Berecin for a time. By early 1940 men were taken daily to work camps, but in 1944, right after Passover, the Hungarians took the Jews from Berecin, via the Ungvar Ghetto, on transports to Auschwitz. Fanny describes in great detail the horrific conditions of the transport: Hungarian police overseers marching them to the cattle trains, hysterical mothers and children, no food or water.

She describes in detail her arrival at Auschwitz, separation of families, selections by Mengele, delousing and head shaving, atrocities and cruelty toward the prisoners. Fanny and the healthier women were sent to Birkenau, Camp C. She details surviving several selections by Mengele. From October 1944 until January 1945 Fannyand her sister were sent to a women’s work camp Schlesiersee, a sub-camp of Gross Rosen, in Poland.

Fanny discusses her religious faith and how it helped her to survive and gives examples of religious observance: trying to light holiday candles and observing Tisha B’Av. Fanny details the death march in January 1945 during which time she injured her leg. Her health deteriorated and she and her sister escaped from the march and spent four nights hiding in a box. She managed to get to a hospital for foreign refugees and was very ill, with back injuriesas well as tuberculosis. Fanny was liberated from a Red Cross hospital in Pirna, Germany by Russian soldiers on May 8, 1945.

In Germany,Fanny suffered for 10 years inmany hospitalizations. She was in a hospital in Heidenau (near Dresden) for two years. In 1947, Fanny was in the DP camp, Schlachtensee, in Berlin, and later in hospitals in Munich and Gauting for TB, where the Germans paid her medical bills. Finally, in 1955, after procuring papers, she joined her relatives in the United States.

Jacques Lipetz was born in Antwerp, Belgium, 1932. He was educated at Takhemoni, a Jewish school. He relates many childhood memories. He vividly describes his family’s flight through France to Marseille in May 1940. Jacques, his mother and two brothers went to Lisbon via Spain, his father via Morocco. An interesting vignette explains how he managed to join his family.

Jacques and his family sailed to New York City in 1941 but could not stay because their quota number had not come up yet. They booked passage to the Philippines and landed in Manila in May or June 1941. He describes their life as Belgian subjects under Japanese occupation. Jacques attended a private school run by the Christian Brothers, and describes his religious education as a Sephardic Jew in a congregation dominated by Ashkenazic German Jews, as well as antisemitic persecution by Filipino students. He gives an interesting account of Japanese cultural attitudes and their treatment of foreigners and natives. The Japanese brought civilian Jewish internees to High Holiday services. He tells a charming story of how a Japanese officer helped his brother get his scooter back from a German Nazi family. Jacques describes conditions in Manila towards the end of the war and liberation by Americans. Jewish chaplains held a Passover Seder for the Jewish community at the Manila racetrack. The Lipetz family left Manila for America in late 1945 and received a permanent visa five years later.

Historical endnotes by Dr. Michael Steinlauf are in the transcript.

Interviewee: LIPETZ, Jacques Date: July 21, 1988

Freda Cwanger, nee Stern, was born September 27, 1912 in a small town in Romania. Her family moved to Tarnopol, Poland when she was very young, after her father returned from his service in the Polish Army. She briefly talks about beating of Jews after 1935, and how the Russian occupation and then the German invasion affected her family. Freda's family, along with other Jews, were driven from their homes into the Tarnapol Ghetto. Freda took care of her siblings after both her parents died, her mother from starvation.

When Freda realized that all the Jews in the ghetto would be killed, she and her brother and sisters escaped into the forest. Her siblings were captured and killed by the Gestapo in 1942. Freda was alone in the forest for three years. A Ukrainian man captured her so he could bring her to the Gestapo, but she got away. Even though Freda says that she doesn't know how she survived, her testimony shows how courageous she was. She briefly talks about the physical and emotional damage she suffered.

Freda left the forest and was hidden by three different women, each time for about five weeks, until the war was over. She went to Trembowla, where Jews that had survived were gathered. She met and married her husband there. Helped by HIAS, Fred, her husband and their son came to the United States in 1946.

Mr. Di Giorgio served in E Company, 232nd Regiment, 42nd Division of the Seventh Army during World War II. He briefly describes some of his combat experiences and the heavy losses his division took. His unit entered Dachau in April, 1945 shortly after it was liberated, under orders to clear all the buildings and tunnels and then to move on.

He saw some survivors and a few guards who tried to blend in with them, a lampshade made out of human skin, and many so-called "Forty and Eights"-- cattle cars stacked with bodies ready for cremation. He explains how what he saw at Dachau profoundly affected him, renewed his will to fight, and increased his religious observance. He was moved to testify because of his perception of widespread disbelief about the Holocaust.

Interviewee: DI GIORGIO, Philip Date: December 6, 1994

Gertrude Jacobs, nee Bergman, was born into an observant Jewish family in Voelkersler, Southern Bavaria, Germany in January 1924. Her father and grandfather were decorated war veterans. There were 12 Jewish families living in her village and Gertrude describes this area of Germany as particularly antisemitic both before and after 1933, when Hitler came to power. She describes how Jewish life in general and her family’s life were affected by anti-Jewish decrees, and relates two attacks on her while in school. Most of the village people shunned them, a few helped them secretly.

Gertrude gives second hand accounts of Kristallnacht, of her grandmother’s liberation from Theresienstadt concentration camp, and her grandmother’s return to and post-war life in Germany. Gertrude came to the United States in 1938, where she also experienced antisemitism.

Gertrude expresses her feelings about Germans, restitution, German Jews, and how growing up in Nazi Germany affects her to this day. She explains her philosophy of living as a Jew and a survivor and the special obligations this entails.

David Buchsbaum was born in Gorlice, Poland on April 20, 1921 to a religious family. He was one of 11 children.. He gives a brief description of pre-war Gorliceand the Jewish community which was 25% of the population, about 3,500 Jews. David’s family owned a grocery store.

David describes the mood change among non-Jewish neighbors in 1938 after Germany occupied Czechoslovakia and describes how they would stand in front of Jewish stores and businesses announcing, "Do not buy from Jews".

In 1939 once the Nazis occupied Gorlice the family was warned by a non-Jewish neighbor to flee, but the family could not afford the certificate to emigrate to Palestine. David details the anti-Jewish measures 1940: Jews had to wear the Yellow star, Jewish businesses were confiscated, synagogues were closed, Jewish" quarters" were created and David’s father was shot to death by a German soldier right before his eyes. David also witnessed the machine gun shooting of entire Jewish families.

In July, 1942 all males from 12-65 were arrested and marched in the streets; some were shot and David, a brother and others were sent to the Plaszow concentration camp. David describes the horrific conditions there: cold, typhus, appells, beatings and the electrified fence. In 1943, as the Russians advanced David and 1,000 other Jews were sent in boxcars to the slave labor camp, Skarzysko. Those who were left behind were either shot in the woods or were gassed in vans and burned. In Skarzysko they made ammunition and David was in in the harshest area, Barrack C. In 1944 David was sent to Buchenwald where all his personal possessions were confiscated, including his tallit and tefillin, which distressed his greatly because he had tried to observe tradition as best he could. As the Russians advanced he was sent to Terezin(Theresienstadt) and was liberated from there on May 8, 1945. David describes that many survivors from Terezin died from overconsumption of food immediately after liberation.

David later returned to Poland to find his relatives but left because of fierce antisemitism and the Kielce pogrom. He traveled to Prague, and was then sent to Salzburg, Austria by the Joint Distribution Committee. The Joint arranged for him to join an uncle in the United States. On June 2, 1949 David arrived in Boston. He and two brothers survived the war.